Podcast Transcript
You're listening to the Girls Get Off podcast, an R18 podcast in all things female pleasure. Think girl talk, but real girl talk, where we chat all things masty, self loving, sex, orgasms and more. Nothing is off limits, which means you get all the secrets even our guests BFFs don't know. We're on a mission to make talking about getting off as fun as actually doing it. Ready to join the Mastination? Let's get into it.
Welcome back to the Girls Get Off podcast. Today we have a very special guest on Jacob Lucas, but before we get into it, we're gonna do a bit of a summary about what the podcast was about. Because I really enjoyed it. I really like learning about body language, so I really enjoyed hearing about it with respect to dating. I thought it was awesome. I know, and so beneficial as well. There comes a point where I'm gonna need to stop doing these podcasts for my own gain, but. I did learn a lot from it. Yeah, I think it was, he talks about a couple of things that you can do like on first dates or when you're on like dating apps and stuff. And one of the things that I thought was really cool about the dating apps and dating in general is how you have to have, you know, like know what you're there for rather than just going on like random dates for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, that was one of my biggest takes out of it is that. It's definitely, I've just realised after talking to Jacob that I probably have never had in my mind that I want to be in a relationship. So I've gone into dating without that end goal in mind. And I think, I guess that's important because that's the way, like, you want to direct it, I guess, your dating. Yeah, I guess it's kind of, that's the wrong word. Doomed from the start if you don't have that sort of plan, isn't it? But, but that's cool. But I was saying, I was saying to Jo Offie, you've got to bloody stop telling yourself you're bad at dating. Otherwise you'll believe it, you know, you weren't born bad at dating. But no, I like this chat actually made me realize that it isn't that I'm bad at dating, it's that my end goal has never been. for whatever reasons that I don't necessarily want to be in a relationship. I love my life. I'm, you know, someone's going to have to be bloody good to be that person. So I've never kind of like gone in looking for that. So I don't think I'm bad at dating anymore. Go Jacob. Such hot tips on body language and reading other people's like intentions and, you know, if they're into it or not. Yeah, and the way that he speaks about it as well, it's almost like if you could get really good at it, it's almost like you're almost like gaming the system. Like if you could get great at this, you could really manipulate a situation or not necessarily... We don't want people to manipulate things in the wrong way, I guess. No, more like, you know, like show that you're interested or then gauge, like actually get a true gauge as to whether they're interested as well. Yeah, absolutely. And... Yeah, I think he came out with a tip like on not getting ghosted and stuff, which I think is so relatable to people, like how many people get ghosted nowadays. And it's just like, you know, reading the signs early, I guess, making sure you're giving off the right signs yourself so that, you know, like they kind of stay interested, I guess. Yeah, 100 percent. I liked what he was talking about in terms of the pandemic and how that's like. how people get rusty with their social skills too, because I think, yeah, there was a period of time and depending on where you live, with how normal that is now, you kind of got to relearn, I guess, it's like anything. Yeah, yeah. And again, on that, that was like a little bit of a light bulb moment for me, because like Viv is such a more experienced and better speaker than I am. But like that's just social skills, right? I'm probably- It's just practice. Exactly, I'm probably the one that's always just been scared to do any speaking or anything like that. So I haven't done it. And Viv is great at social skills. Not because you're innately like bad at it or anything. I know. Like there's nothing wrong. It's just how often, and I was, you know, I mentioned the other day, it's just because I've had more opportunity to practice it in the past. Yeah, yeah. And it's the exact same with dating. Like the more you just talk to people in practice and- the better you are at it, which totally makes sense. Yeah, I quite liked his tips for like where to go on the dates as well. I thought that was quite cool because I would have never thought about that. No, no, it's such it's like there's a few little gems in there. Yeah, yeah. So so helpful to know. I'll certainly be using these tips with any future dating. I feel excited after this episode. I think we've just had a therapy session. Well, and I'm even thinking about a conversation I had yesterday with a friend and she said, oh, I'm going to go for a drink with a guy when I'm in Auckland next. And do I go for a drink? Do I make it dinner? What if I don't like it? How do I leave? And so I had some really good tips around that in terms of if you setting a timeframe so that you can appear, A, more attractive, but then B, it kind of gives you an out as well if you're not worried about bailing. Yeah. And I guess it like doing the right things on a date, like the right date to begin with is such a plus remember? Like I went on that date a couple of months ago, um, up in Auckland actually. And it was like a drink, a walk, and then another drink. And I was like, oh my gosh, that was such a nice date. And then him on this episode was like, oh, um, you know, the first date should be a drink. than a walk than a drink. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I did that. And it actually felt so good, but it was probably like that whole layout as well that made me feel so good, hey. Yeah, I think that's quite cool. Yeah. I liked it. Amazing. Oh well, enjoy the episode. Cool. It's a good one. Today we have Jacob Lucas on the show. He's a professional dating coach from the UK. He's also a body language expert. So he's gained over 600,000 followers on social media and has appeared on live TV, giving tips on dating, flirting, psychology and body language. So great to have you joining us, Jacob. I'm not sure if you saw our stories yesterday, but we've been quite looking forward to this chat. No two people need some dating tips more than us. So, um, no, we've had, we've had a great time going through your tech talk and everything. So how did you get started? So really random actually. So basically I studied psychology for a long, long time. For about 10 years or something like that. But always did it on the side. Funny enough, actually I used to be a professional boxer. Wasn't very good at it, but that's what I used to do. That's why my nose is so busted. But basically what happened was I used to teach boxing and stuff like that. But again, always did psychology and attraction and stuff like that and it built up. And funnily enough, I actually got really, really ill. I nearly died, right? And I thought, I'm gonna die here. So I might as well, basically, I thought I might as well do what I always want to do, which is dating coaching. So put out there and like all the psychology and all that stuff and all the tips and tricks and people are like, I really like this. And my whole goal was I might die here. So I might as well go help people before I do. And lucky I'm all better now, but it was... But yeah, that's literally how it started. And then people just really responded well to it. And then obviously it snowballed from there and then went on telly for it and all that stuff. So yeah, it's really cool. That's so cool. I totally thought you were gonna say then that you almost died. I shouldn't be making a joke out of it. No, you did say you almost died. I did, I was gonna die. No, no, I know. But I thought you were gonna say you almost died. So you thought you'd message like this girl or something that you've always wanted to and that's where it started. No, no, I always wanted dating coaching. I always wanted to help you. that sort of thing. I thought, you know what, I might die here so I might as well do what I always want to do. It's like God's way of pushing you into a kind of thing, you know? So, yeah, it's interesting. And so you've got like 300 videos on your TikTok, so it kind of been that long ago that you almost died. About two years ago. Oh my gosh. Thank God you're here. Yeah, well, yeah, thank God I am here, yeah. But yeah, it was terrible. But like it was like the Nova effect basically, like really It was tough, but like, yeah, probably the best things ever happened to me in a weird way, you know? That's so cool. Yeah. So cool. And how has the dating world, you know, like over the last two years that you've been posting these videos, how has the dating world changed? I feel like we've just been through this massive historical event with the pandemic. What are the changes that you've seen in the dating world? Oh, massively. So the pandemic changed a lot, didn't it? So socially, lot of people, because basically social skills you have to keep on top of, you can't just ignore them because you get rusty. So even just talking to people on a day-to-day basis becomes harder when you're stuck inside 24-7, right? And then what happened was then people went out and they were a little bit different because everybody was so stuck inside that going to the bar and stuff and having a conversation wasn't even allowed, you know, so we couldn't be on our game, if you will, and it's very hard. And then basically a lot of it went onto online and a lot of people don't like the online dating, do they? Because they feel judged. So it's like swiping left and right and it's like, it can make people feel pretty bad about themselves. They don't get it all, they feel like they have too many choices. And what happens is, is basically a lot of people think I can't be bothered to do this anymore. So then a lot of people withdrew within themselves and kind of like gave up. That was the biggest thing I found within the pandemic. I don't know if you can see, but Jo just raised her hand. Definitely one of those give her up ones. Well, let's, let's touch on online dating then, because I think you, um, you make a really good point. I, you know, personally, I'm on, I'm on some apps in Sydney and it is, it's so, it is quite judgmental. Um, and I think it is something you kind of have to get good at. Like it's not as natural as just talking to someone in person. What are some of the biggest mistakes that you see people making on online dating apps? The biggest one is they play it too safe. They play it really too safe. So the casual conversation starters, hey, how are you? How are you doing? It doesn't work. It's too boring. It does not work at all. I'm sure you've been on dating apps and the guy will mess you, hey, instantly it's like, oh, do you know what I mean? Whereas it may be like a funny... Yeah, or I messaged that, Jacob. Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm helping you out here, right? Noted. I offended you. I'm sorry. Um, no, no hey, let's go on a date instantly, but you don't wanna leave it too long because what's gonna happen is, is it's gonna fizzle out. So it's quite hard to read that like little, that little gauge, if that makes sense? Yeah. So what would you say? What would you say on a dating app? Viv's getting a pin to take notes. Yeah. What would I say? A good one is something that's quite numerical actually. So you can literally say something like, you've got three, this is your opener, right? So you've got three choices. You've got... One, a compliment, two, a pick-up line, three, a joke, right? One of those three, and you give somebody a little bit of a choice, and it's fun, it's interesting, and you just gotta be prepared for whatever answer they say. But it's different, you know? It's just different, because not many people would do that sort of thing. All right, good. Yeah, I feel like we need to bring out a copy right now. I've got to have a compliment, a joke, and what else up my sleeve? Or a pick-up line, it's a funny, because it's so funny, like a pick-up line, yeah. But it's light, it's light-hearted, and it's fun. It's just something a bit different. Or a real easy one is an opinion. Just ask like a controversial opinion with someone because everybody likes getting their opinion heard, right? No, that annoys me. Really? Yeah, I've had that before and I just don't reply. What did they ask though? What did they ask? Oh, what did... I don't know. Probably... What did you get vaccinated or something like that? Oh, sh... Are you passionate? What do you think of vaccinations? Oh my gosh, I... I swipe left if they even say that they've been vaccinated on their things. Some put it in their profiles now and I'm like... Yeah, I understand what you mean as well. Because if you're vaccinated, you're vaccinated, but not as a personal choice. But a lot of people, they're trying to ram it down people's throats. You do whatever you want to do. I'm completely pro-choice. You do whatever you want to do. Right? Yeah, totally. So I'm like, oh, I'm not getting in a conversation with them. Like, even though I have been or whatever, I'm just like... Yeah, if they try and force your political whatever opinion on you, it's going to be a nightmare day anyway, you know? Yeah, well that's not good in person or online. No, it's fine. I'm like the queen of finding red flags. Yeah. Okay, where were we going with this conversation? I totally... Well, let's talk about body language then. So we've got past the online dating app stage. We're on the date. I've seen a lot of videos on your TikTok around body language. And what I love about this is that... It is natural in a way, but it's invisible also at the same time. Like when you do these videos on TikTok, I'm like, oh, that makes so much sense. But it's something that you wouldn't put like words to either. It's something you do or something you don't. And there's obviously a huge effect from that. So what are some like, let's say top five body language tips off the top of your head for a first date? Oh, yeah, that's a good one. Okay. So you mean like to look out for or to do yourself? To do yourself. Oh, and to look out for maybe not top five. Let's just go the best body language tips to look out for, because we need to find those red flags. Um, okay. So my, the best one, I think is actually my first ever Bible video. Um, and it went, it blew up because of it. And it's so, it's ubiquitous. Honestly, it's really good. So when it's all, it's all down to evolutionary psychology, right? So that all comes from eight days when we like apes basically, right? And Basically what people do when they find you attractive, they slowly scratch the back of their hand like this, or their collarbone, right? And that is actually because they're inviting you to groom them subconsciously. Yeah, it's mad, right? That's interesting. Wow. Really interesting, yeah. So if someone scratches really hard like that. I really hope I don't have an itchy collarbone. You'll notice it honestly. Now, honestly, you'll notice it, right? If someone starts scratching really hard, it's because they're nervous, right? If they scratch you really lightly in a conversation like that. you know for a fact they find you attractive every single time. And when I learned this I was like, that's not true, right? And then I was looking out for it and in situations where I knew the person found me attractive and they started doing this, I was there like, well, that's crazy. And then you ask them, like, oh, like what you thinking, whatever it was. And they go, oh, it was like, I thought you were hot, whatever it was, right? And it's every single time and it's ridiculous. It's absolutely ubiquitous everywhere. More prominent in women than men, but men do still do it as well. Wow, that's cool. That is a hot tip. Yeah. Honestly, that's a game changer. Cause when you see it, you'll know when to make the move as well. When they start doing this slowly. That's interesting. Usually they do it when they sat down and set it up though. Okay. Keep going. That's right. Okay. So it's something you can do and have a person you can do right. Is when you're on a date. never ever lean forward in your chair never even if they cannot hear you do not lean forward it's all about controlling the frame of the interaction right so attraction a lot of it comes down to frames um if you control the frame you're going to be more attractive so when i say control the frame dominant one in the conversation that could be conversation or body language okay so never ever lean forward in your chair because if you lean back like this and then they lean forward to even just talk to you on a subconscious level they will feel more attracted to you because it feels like they're chasing you. Does that make sense? And also something you could do yourself is literally just observe if they're leaning forward or back in the chair. If they're leaning back, they're probably not as engaged. If they're leaning forward, they're engaged probably because they find you attractive again everywhere. That is really a problem. But you can test it. Literally just lean back in the chair and see if they lean forward harder or not. If they do, they can lean forward. Oh my gosh, this is fun. I've never been so excited to go on a date. So might, might. Previous learnings around this, I feel if you're in a business meeting, and maybe this is wrong, that if both of you are leaning forward at the table, then that's a good thing because you're both into it. But I'm guessing that in this dating situation, that's not necessarily what you want. Or is it? It's a good thing. It's good if you're both leaning forward. It's fantastic. But you can just basically level yourself up a little bit if you just lean back and watch them lean forward into you. Right? Okay. I like this because you know if they're kind of into you or not. Yeah, exactly. 100%. A good one as well, say if you're like out in a bar or club or whatever and you've got a guy walking up to you and he's hitting on you, whatever, lean back in a chair and let him lean forward and ever people in the bar will notice what you're doing, right? They will see a guy hitting on you and you'll become more attractive through pre-selection. More prominent women again than it is men, but yeah. So basically, if you lean back in chair, you've got a guy leaning into you, and you're observing, you see that, you're like, he's hit on her, she must have something. Wow. This is great. So how does that differ then, to mirroring body language? Mirroring? Yeah, how is that different? Mirroring can be a good thing as well. So, let's say for example, I'm admittedly about this one, firewall as well. If you have a drink with somebody, and you pick up your drink, put it down and every single time they copy you, every single time or for example if you, I don't know, like put your hand on the table in a certain way and they do something very similar or you brush your hair and they do it, then it's again it's because they fell into your frame, it's all social dynamics and they fell into your frame and they feel like submissive or compliant to you. If you know somebody mirroring you as well you can do like little compliance tests of them. They're more susceptible to do what you say if you notice somebody mirroring your body language. So if you want to ask them something to like do something, obviously not illegal, right? But if you want to ask them to do something small, for example, they're more susceptible to do it if they're mirroring your body language because they're already stuck in your frame. That's interesting. I'd be a great supervillain, wouldn't I? Right? Yeah. I'd be a really good supervillain, wouldn't I? Okay. And, oh, do you have something else you wanna ask around? No, I think I've got the concept. I've got the concept. I was just thinking, I was like, but if you lean backwards, are they also just gonna lean backwards because of mirroring body language? Or is it overriding it? No, because when they lean back, it's very rare. They will lean back, they will. more be compelled to lean forward. If they lean back, if you lean back and then they lean back, it's usually a battle for superiority on a subconscious level. Wow. I have never seen Viv look so just like focused on the conversation. This is incredible. I was never going to be one if you want me to tell you if you could tell someone feel superior to you or not in a conversation. So you'd be sat there. Or any works really when you sat down. If you know somebody who starts steeping their hands like this in a conversation, they're feeling dominant. That's what it is. So honestly, you've seen it all the time in business meetings and people on TV or whatever. If you're speaking with their hands, it means they feel superior to you usually. Jacob is doing that thing with your hands that you see, when people are trying to sell you an online course and they're standing in front of their Ferrari or something and they've got their hands, all their fingertips pressed together at their chest level. The complete scams, the scam artists, right? Oh, I knew what they were doing. For 50 pound a month, 50 pound at the end. Yeah. That's so funny. Okay. So, sorry, I'm going into what I need to know now, Viv. Nice. What, what's our top three things that like top three tips to do on a date? Top three tips. For girls. Okay. So. Right, I do, okay, I'll tell you another one I like, is the kiss one, always works. You've probably seen this one, the secret of kissing like a pro, yeah? Yeah, it's so good. It's part of it, man. Yeah. Absolutely part of it. But whenever, if you're kissing a guy in the date, always be the first person to put away from the kiss. Always, no matter what, because basically you can try to frame the interaction, they feel like they're chasing you, because they feel like they're chasing you, they feel more attracted to you. It's ridiculously potent and it works so well. honestly. And then whenever you do that, you're, you can basically go back in for the kiss whenever you want, because you're the one who disengaged from the first one. Love it. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah. Okay. Before we're kissing them, because it takes, it takes me a while to go in for the bash, but what's like a good, maybe like, you know, like turning up on the date, what's kind of like a good starter? Oh, okay. I love this one because not many people do it and it's actually really good. Good for anxiety as well, but also makes you come across more high value, much more attractive. Before the date, don't always say, it's called a false time constraint. Say before the date like I know the day before whatever. Oh, when we get seven, however, I cannot stay too long no because I need to go home for work, whatever. Okay, I need to go home for work, it would be work early. Now that way, it's kind of like, you can leave whenever you want to leave. But because they know you could leave at any point, they're gonna want you to stay more and then you become more like in demand and high value because you're not putting everything into the date. Now it sounds really stupid, right? But just that little thing of saying, I can't say too long, no, whatever, they will feel like that date is more valuable. That make sense? Okay, wow. I like that. And actually, that's just a really good practical tip because then you don't have to worry about Like if you don't like it, you can leave. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, that is one of the best tips that people don't do. I tell people do and some people don't do. I'm like, honestly, that will change the game a little bit for you. Because it's like, um, you know, if you've met like a friend who you haven't seen for a long time, they say, oh, I've only got like an hour though. And you really value that hour, right? You're like, yeah, it's really exciting. And, and whatever, and never gets awkward. Whereas if I said to you, I'm going to sit with you for like 7 PM to 12 PM, we're like, oh, like. Can this guy go away now? You would be though, but if I said, I've only got five minutes, you'll be really engaged in the conversation, right? Yeah, that's so true. So do that before the date, and that way that person will be a lot more, again, they feel like they're chasing you and they feel more attracted to you. Really simple, it's like, it's a game of chess, not chess is this, right? Yeah. Yeah, so plan ahead. Yeah, that's so good. Really good. Another one is, it's really basic, but make sure you have canned dialogue in your head, okay? So... A lot of people go on dates and be like, what do I say? What do I say? Before you go on a date, just in your head, don't be crazy with it. Just be like, okay, we've talked about this on text or whatever, I can bring something in conversation, if the conversation ever starts dipping, I could be like, oh, okay, like, tell me about this, whatever happened, whatever. But if you have like five of them, you will never run out of conversation. Because always a conversation that you just pop out like that. It's like a little get out of jail free card. That's so cool. That's so cool. Okay. So we've had a good conversation and we've had a patch and I've pulled away first. What is the... Have you not heard? No, I haven't heard one. What's a patch? Like a tongue kiss. Like a kiss. That's New Zealand, right? That's New Zealand talk. Apparently. Okay. Haven't you heard of like Pash Rash? When you get stubble, like after, like it gives you a rash if they've got stubble. Don't you feel like I know about you guys when you say like sexual stuff is rude. That's all I know is rude. Oh, that's such an awful word. That's probably not any good word from kissing or sexual stuff from New Zealand or Australia apart from that. I feel like it's Wicked Cray. Whoops. Yeah. Okay. That's so funny. So thoughts on sex on the first date? Nah, not feeling keeping. Oh, and as it happens, that's it. Yeah, never. Never. Okay. That's so funny. It very rarely works out. Very rarely. Because basically, people... Well, maybe I just shouldn't drink on a first date. Take this date. Oh, no drink. Probably my most recent... day and I literally wore ugly underwear because I knew I was drinking and I was like, okay, if I've got ugly underwear on, nothing's coming off, right? Like that was kind of like the little security thing I did with myself. But then like, yeah, kind of after a few drinks, I get more attractive. Have you seen him since or not? Oh, he wanted to keep... Yeah, that was a clinger. Oh, God. All he did was say it's quite a clinger. I'm like, no. I hope he's not listening to this. It ruins his confidence, right? Like, no, not... Yeah, but on the first day, no, never. Yeah. Never. It's like, you've got to basically make that person validate why you should even get the boyfriend privileges from you, you know? And that way, they're more likely to commit to you. But on the first date, it's like literally one in 10, they might actually go further. But most of the time they'd be like, you got what I needed, see you later kind of thing. Yeah, I think that might be more me. You're the guy. Yeah, yeah. I think I need to go into it with a better attitude, maybe that if I'm looking for something long-term. That's so funny. You can have a free date, Rory. Free dates is fine. Give us a free date rule and then that way is just make it like in your head, I promise I will do this or I swear I will do this, whatever. And that way you're a lot more likely to actually develop that and to actually start seeing that person properly if you make them wait three dates. Three dates. Okay. 100% every single time. Okay. I just wrote that down. And so talk me through the three dates then. What are your suggestions? Say you go for a drink on the first date, what's next? Okay. It's actually interesting, so you want to go to as many different little places as possible. This is all psychology, basically. So, again, if I've done evolutionary psychology, if, let's say, for example, you want to date with somebody and you only went to one place, you only will subconsciously feel safe with that person in that one environment, right? Now, let's say, for example, you use, like, the whole evolutionary psychology, let's say you're a caveman in a cave with them. So, if you go on a date with somebody and it's, say, like, in the cave, right, you're only going to feel safe in the cave. But if you go on a date to the cave, and to the river, and to like the field or whatever it is, you know you're gonna be safe with that person in three different environments, right? And that person feel a lot more familiar with you in different environments as well. So whenever you go for a date, now we're still hardwired, it's like the same how we were. If you go on a date with somebody, you should go for like a drink, a walk, and then maybe a drink again somewhere else, right? On the first date. So go, I'll have a drink. Oh, should we go to this other place? I know it's really nice. That's one, two, three places, right? Second date you probably want to go for some little more like high activity so it could be like for example bowling or whatever it could be right whatever makes you happy but again go to like bowling, drink, go for a walk, go for some food that's like three places to get right and on the third date is you want to make that more so like if you want to have sex then you can kind of like be in an environment when you can have sex so if you go for a date somewhere out like nice day out or whatever and then you go back to yours that's the only time you should really do it then. But you should never ever go back to your place before that third date ever. Because you do not know what that person is. They could be a psychopath or you know, right? But you wanna do it so that person, if you do that like steps out of different places, you will feel so much more familiar with them, the sex will be better, and they will feel a lot more familiar with you as well. So do that every single time. That sounds ideal if you like someone. If you just stay in one location, it will fizzle out. Yeah, if you don't like them, you never have to go on that second one. Yeah. 100%. Absolutely. Yeah. It's like it sets a foundation for a proper relationship then as well. Like we are dating. We're not just two people going for a drink and then having sex. We're actually dating properly, you know? So it will set the foundation of a proper relationship. Simple. Yeah. Simple. But and does that work? And so that works. I mean, we're talking about it, I feel like from our perspective a lot, but does that work both ways in terms of them feeling safe with you as well? Yeah, absolutely. Not so much safe, more familiar with them. So women would feel like subconsciously a woman wants to be safe around a guy they're with because guys could be anything couldn't they? You never know. But with a guy, well for one the main good thing about that is it makes him emotionally invested into you So if he's emotionally invested into you, he's a lot less likely to ghost you, right? But it's just feel more familiar with you and you start to like pair bond more as well for that way So that's a way of looking at it making feel familiar and more likely to pair bond and more commit whereas a woman feels safer pair bond and feel a lot more likely to commit to that guy as well. And again, so it's a foundation of a healthy relationship. Interesting. Yeah, I think I had written down something I wanted to ask you, because only because we hear it so much from our audience that they get ghosted a lot. So you just kind of like answered one of my questions in that is, yeah, how to like keep them interested, I guess. And Yeah, it's all about emotional investment. So let's say you've got like, let's say for example, if somebody does something, let's say you have sex with a guy really fast and he's thinking, okay, I've had sex. It's kind of like you skipped the whole process and went into bed with somebody as opposed to, you know, just taking your time and whatever, getting to know each other. And that way it's not really, it doesn't come across as valuable to him. So it's like, oh, you know, onto the next. Whereas if he puts time into it, it's going to feel a lot more valuable. It's like anything you do in life, isn't it? Anytime you put more time into something, you do not wanna let it go. It's like the same for relationships. Yeah. And I think like key to this conversation also, just thinking about it personally, is that I guess there's the difference between wanting to get into a relationship, like dating, wanting to get into a relationship and just dating for something to do and meeting people and kinda, you know, like I feel like before you even go on that first date, you need to be in it in your mind that you're wanting a relationship, right? Absolutely. Yeah. So I would think with like a river. So you've got like a river. If you've got one side, you're single and the other side is, so you want to be single, just have friends and benefits and then you want to be in a relationship on the other side. If you're in the middle where you're like, I kind of want to have friends and benefits, but want to see if it goes anywhere, you are going to drown. Yeah. It doesn't make it like, do you know what I mean? Because it doesn't really like, it's not congruent with what you feel. So you'll be like, friends of benefits, you're like, okay, I'm going to keep doing this. You develop feelings with that person and they'll be like, we're just friends of benefits. And then you'll be there emotionally hurt and damaged from it. You'd be like, why am I not good enough? Like, but because you set the precedent of we're friends of benefits, then you can't really blame for like putting away, because there's no commitment there. Whereas if like, um. Again, the other side, if you're looking just for a relationship, however, you accept that a man's want to be friends with benefits of you, but you hope it will change, then again, you're going to be emotionally hurt to think that a change. So you need to be one or the other. But I always say go for a relationship. It's a lot more valuable than friends with benefits all day long. 100 percent. I love it. Nice. And no, you're not sold. The relationship is more valuable. Oh, don't worry. Wait, Joe needs therapy. Everybody, I think all the listeners by now know this anyway. So that's okay. Are you taking any more than a minute, Joe? No, no way. No. So you're using tips, go out there and use these tips. Yeah, yeah. No, I've found this conversation so interesting. I'm keen to give it a go. Like I've never been excited about a date. So you should find dating is like, dating should be something you really, really enjoy. A lot of people see it as like a chore. It's not, it should be like something like fun, you know? It should never be a chore. It should always be something you enjoy. Like after you work or whatever, I'm going on dates and I'm really excited, not, oh, fuck, will this work out or not, you know? It should be something that is fun. If you set it as boundary straight, then you know what you're getting in for. Oh, 100%. And I think in so many ways, like what you described just then, I was like, gosh, I've kind of been the guy in some situation. But I'm faded. Do you remember my friends with benefits? Well, I think it also, I think what I'm hearing as well is that it comes back to like your agenda going into those situations. And then also what kind of wavelength that you're on. Like if you're on different wavelengths, it's never really going to work. Is it? No, no, never going to work with me. And yes, but like, so if like, say for example, you don't want me to say, like, if you were dating, however, you're constantly dating or whatever, but your end goal is obviously get a relationship. But if you're like, kind of playing the guy role where you're like, oh, I have sex or whatever. Or like, you're basically, what you're doing is, you're quitting before you get fired. That make sense in your own head? It's kind of like a self sabotagey kind of thing. So what you're doing is, you know you shouldn't say we've gone on a first date, however you do it because that way you're safe from getting rejected, you know? Yeah. So tell me, yeah I like it. I think we touched a lot on the dating app. So tell me more about meeting in person. Like say you see someone at a bar or even say what I think is really cool. Like if you see someone hot say at a cafe or something, talk me through that. Oh okay different scenarios, different situations. Different scenarios. It's just because I like body language. So let's say you've got indirect and direct game, all right? So let's say you're example, if for example you're in a coffee shop or you're passing someone on the street or something like that, you need direct game because you're not there to socialize. You're there to do something like say, have a coffee, or you're doing work on their computer, not there to have a chat with you, they're there to do work. You need to be direct. Now, direct is less effective than indirect, but basically direct games, when you walk up to someone it's like, look, I'll be quick, find you attractive, blah, blah. I'd like... I hope you don't come across too forward, hit my number, give me a call, whatever, right? But that's only situations where you're not there to socialize. You gotta be direct and quick. The only good thing about that is you come across confident. That's it, okay? We can't really have that conversation properly because of the situation. But if you're in a bar, easiest way, like I said, it's just a conversation starter with an opinion opener. If you start going at a bar where people can socialize. and you start doing direct game, you're going to be that girl who's going around just going oh here's my number, here's my number, you're fit, you're hot, whatever, right? It's not really that appealing, but if you need to make it so you're coming under the radar so you can display your qualities and have a build a connection with that person without them actually knowing that you find them hot until the end of the night or the end of the game where you're like okay yeah by the way you're hot or whatever like here's my number, you're quite interesting or whatever, give me a call, move me up. but they know what's up, don't they? But that's a simple one in the bar, walking up, asking their opinion on something, so you could go, oh, just a quick one, use a full-time constraint. I've gotta go back to my friends really quick, because I'm really busy. Just wanna get your opinion like, my friends. In a bar, I've got these eight drinks I need to take me to the table. I'm super busy, but in the meantime. No, but let's say you're sat at the bar, let's say you're at the bar and you're waiting for a drink. It's so easy, just talk to someone who's like next to you, right? Same guy, you think's hot. He's next to you like, oh my goodness, a really quick one. I've got to shoot back to my friends really quick, but we're actually discussing like, she's got a guy who keeps texting her, but she wants him to stop texting her. How does she do that? Now he's the guy who's gonna give his opinion because everybody likes that sort of topic to bring up and everybody thinks they have an opinion on that sort of topic. That's a conversation starter right there. And then it builds up over time. And then, yeah, and then what's gonna happen is, you're like, okay, I need to go. So again. you've got that short time window where you see more valuable than them. And you're like, okay, I need to go. But yeah, you're quite interesting. Let's send a flurry, play it for a way or whatever you want to do. But here's my number. If you're lucky, I might text you back. Simple, walk off. Nice. Good game. That's a good game, trust me. What in terms of communicating from just from experience, what I've found is that in a weird way, you can be too straight up. Yeah, you need that's bro. You know? Oh no, probably the opposite. Like when I'm like, don't call me, don't like, you know, kind of like real straight up like that. You mean if you don't want somebody, if you do want them, you say, don't call me. No, if you don't want somebody, like if you, if you kind of like, okay, they're not your type or whatever, and you try to end the conversation, like you even ghost them, like kind of, but what I've found from actually being honest, because I'm quite honest, is that in a way that. it not turns them on, but it kind of gets them like, I've literally said to people, like, no, don't waste your time. And they're like, I don't know if you're like really actually wanting me to keep pursuing you. And I was like, No, you're just wasting your time. And they're like, Do you want to waste my time next weekend? Like, do you waste my time, please? Yeah, that's what I think is more high value. That's literally it. Because you're elusive. That's literally all it is. It's like, let's say for example, like if I keep going back to evolution and stuff, but let's say you're a bunch of like monkeys sat around, right? And then the top female monkey went to the little one, oh, fuck off. Like, do you know what I mean? Leave me alone. Then honestly, then basically means you're more high value, right? That's the psychology of it, is you're gonna push somebody away. And if they are, then what I invite them, I must pursue them. What is it about them? That's all that is. So when you're a sort of indomitant in that scenario, you're just displaying like you would if you were like in a tribe, for example, and you went no, because if you were like lower, lower on like the social hierarchy than them, you would want their time. And then they would be like, okay, I'm highlanding because people always want to usually try it in day above or socialize above, you know? Okay, that's all that is. It's also cool. So basically you can't win. You try not to screw with people and you try to just be straight up and... I just think like to say like this really bluntly, but I see you as a friend. That way it's like it's nice but I see you as a friend and everyone knows what that means. Oh I see you as a friend. But they don't know what you mean and there's a social network right? Yeah. But if you went oh yeah like I see you as a friend but yeah I hope it all goes well for you. You're pleasant, you're nice and that way but... they know what's up. If they pursue you after you said that, just block them. I'd like the thing is if you're polite and they still pursue you, they don't get the picture. Honestly, I've got no problems with blocking them. I think a lot of people need to be a lot more selfish in their dating. I always advocate that. I think you're the main character in your own love story. Nobody else is, you're the main character. So if you're not interested in somebody and they're pursuing you, don't feel like, and you've been polite and then carry on, don't be obligated to carry on. Cause in the day, they don't mean anything to you, so why do you care? As long as you're polite to them, don't worry about it. Bit blunt, I think that's a very English way of looking at it, but it's a bit blunt, right? But it's... Yeah, well, I think you can be blunt and polite. Absolutely, yeah. Like, I see my friend and neighbor's going well. And the thing is, like, if they call you and you don't answer and then they call again, then it's like, come on, man, like, get the hint and just give them maybe one more chance before you block them, do it again to block them. because otherwise it becomes a little bit like they're not respecting your boundaries. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like in that situation maybe they might have needed like a little bit more, um, uh, but needed a bit more information, you know, sometimes they might just need more information instead of just wasting your time. I don't know. See if I was, if I was single and a girl said, Oh, don't see me wasting your time. Like, yeah, of course you let me ask. Now, yeah, like end of. Like, but if someone... Exactly, right? Yeah, true. Exactly. If a guy said that to me, I'd be like, ah! Yeah. Yeah, I'd be like, yeah, see you later mate. Like, if you don't want me, something else will, so yeah. As they're like... Yeah. If people pursue it, it's just so desperate for them to pursue that. There's no point. Yeah. Yeah, he obviously needed to be told, like, like you say, I just see you as a friend or I'm not really getting a dating spark or something along those lines. And then like, yeah, it's like super black and white clear that that's like, it's not really gonna happen. Maybe it's like a sub-dom thing he's into, so he'd like to get in touch with him, not like do you know what I mean? I'll tell you what on TikTok I'll tell you what's on TikTok I saw this, it's on my for you page, sometimes it's wild this lady like in dominatrix stuff with a foot on top of this guy he must have been about, I don't know, 50, 60 whatever, with legs on top of him just like, and he's like acting like a footstool and she's like, you're not a good boy, and she's like I'm sorry mistress, I'm sorry mistress and I said like, why is this on TikTok? Like, why is that on TikTok? And she was drinking a cup of tea, and it was like, really weird. And I was there like, why is it on my for you page, first of all, don't understand. Yeah. Oh, we're just so careful with the content sometimes, you know, maybe we need to, maybe that's what we need to start doing and we won't get our accounts banned. How's that not banned? I don't get how that's banned. I was like, that's a bit, bit ranch, isn't it for Tito? That's so funny. That's someone's dad that just makes it weird to me. Like, I read the comment section and they said, that's someone crossing someone's dad. I was like, it is, isn't it? Like, that's like Keith from Down the Road, isn't it? Like, just doing some weird shit. That's so funny. Each to their own, you know? And it's just all about what people are into. Absolutely. Yeah. Love it. Hey, look, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, Jacob. That was just so epic. I think there's lots of takeaways for our audience there. And Joe, because now you can spot those red flags. But how about where people can find you? You've mentioned your TikTok, but I know your TikTok username is slightly different from your normal name. Yeah, so it's just Jacob Lucas 101 for TikTok and Instagram. Also got my website as well, which is on Instagram or TikTok, it's in the bio. I do one-to-ones as well, if anyone wants a one-to-one, do that with video chat. But yeah, it's good, it's really good. So check it out, loads of different stuff, body language, psychology, flirting tips. But yeah, I hope you guys enjoy it if you check it out. But I know you guys have, so use the tips as well, use them. They work, they always work. Every single one, they work because I've literally had so many people tell me like I've done this and it works. So try it out. Yeah, absolutely. You can take control of the situation. I will be scrolling through your page prior to any next date. I'm scratching a neck at the hot ones. Pulling away when I kiss. Yes. That's awesome. If you don't kiss me, and you'll be shocked, you'll be shocked at the response. Wow. If you don't do it, and you're like... Obviously don't think me when you're kissing, but obviously think the situation. Be like, oh yeah, before you kiss, put away for us, put away for us. Boom. Watch how they chase you. Watch it. Wow. There you go. The more you know, I love it. Awesome. Well, thanks again, Jacob. And we will continue to consume your content on TikTok because it's so epic. But thanks again and have a good rest of your day. Thank you very much for having me. Absolute pleasure. I hope you guys have a nice day too. Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the Girls Get Off podcast. You can find us on Instagram at girlsgetoff. You can join our Facebook group, Girls Get Off Uncensored. I think we've got more than 20,000 members in there at the moment. And if you'd like to leave us a rating or a review, that always helps us get higher in the charts, and every week we'll pick the most creative review to win a Missy Mini. Thanks for listening.